Gemma Livermore: Welcome to Seismic Sessions podcast, where we explore how financial services leaders are driving innovation and enhancing the advisor experience.
I’m Gemma Livermore, Head of FS International Marketing at Seismic, and I’m here today with my host, Rachael Rowe.
Rachael Rowe: Hi, Gemma. Thank you. I’m Rachael Rowe, our VP of financial services at Seismic and today we’re talking about how firms are leveraging technology to make it easier for advisors to do business and in turn deliver exceptional client experiences.
Joining us are two fantastic guests, Kirsty Watson, Advisor at Aberdeen, and Dean Haltemus, Vice President of Business Architecture at Ameriprise Financial. Kirsty and Dean, welcome.
Dean Heltemes: Great to be here. Thanks.
Kirsty Watson: Thank you.
Rachael Rowe: So, as regular listeners know, we work our podcast conversation around our seismic earthquake theme, looking back at the tremors, where the movements of change began, at the epicenter, to explore where we are now, and then at the aftershocks, where we explore where things are going in the future.
Gemma Livermore: That’s my very best part of these podcasts, Rachael. Before we get started though, we always start each of our episodes by asking our guests, what does enabling financial services mean to you? So Dean, if I can come to you first on that one.
Dean Heltemes: Sure. Financial services is going through a bit of a transformation right now. You know, there’s less and less advisors. And so the existing advisors have to do more and more with what they’ve got and growth is a challenge. So one of the things we’re really trying to look for is what are some opportunities to drive efficiencies, things we can do with technology to automate, simplify and just make their jobs easier so they can connect with more and more households and families?
Gemma Livermore: Love that. And Kirsty?
Kirsty Watson: Absolutely. So, without wanting to repeat what the dean’s already very eloquently said, I think for me, it’s how do we help our advisor firms to run efficient and scalable businesses, whether that’s in the context of existing client banks or to support them and take on more new clients. But ultimately, it’s about widening the access to advice, certainly for us in the UK market, so that more people across the UK can get access to the advice that they need to achieve their financial goals.
Gemma Livermore: love that and I’ve seen that across the board with people reaching more and more diversity in terms of, Who they can now get hold of.
Rachael Rowe: Yeah, and I think straight out of the blocks, we’re really hitting on some key themes within the industry here around doing more with less and being able to broaden reach, and Make life easier for, for the folks on the front line, but also to create those magic moments of interaction with the clients. So we’ll be very interesting to unpack this Gemma as, we, progress
Gemma Livermore: It will. So Dean, maybe I can turn to you first. Could you share some of the trends you’ve observed in advisor enablement and also some of the challenges firms face in supporting advisors?
Dean Heltemes: Sure, I think one of the trends is that advisor practices are getting larger and larger. So we’re actually seeing, you know, a similar trend you see in other industries where. smaller firms are joining up with other small firms and next thing you know, you’ve got bigger firms. And so, as part of doing that, the advantage is to be able to look and say, where can I drive some efficiencies by operating, you know, as a larger entity?
But the challenge that comes with that is, they’re looking for consistency, right? So, if you’re a single advisor, doing your thing the way you want to do it, and now you’re part of a firm with 10 other advisors, No there’s a drive to say i want to create the best experience and i want to try to make that consistence across all my family’s that i’m working with
and so that’s where you know there’s a challenge in being able to bring the right technology to bear with the right systems on brand.
Align with marketing messaging and be able to just help simplify their processes that they do every single day as they’re trying to work with more and more clients.
Rachael Rowe: for sure. And I, and I think that that brings a challenge as well, Dean, doesn’t it? In terms of integration, if you’ve got all of these disparate systems, how you bring them together in an efficient way, is that something that, you’ve seen kind of, come to the fore over the last few years.
Dean Heltemes: Yeah, absolutely. I often joke that the last thing an advisor wants is one more application that they need to log into, figure out how to use. And so definitely integration is the name of the game in financial services. We can’t, you know, afford to have everyone. Learn every system and have to go to every one of those every day.
So, a lot of [00:05:00] of the opportunities we have is to integrate those systems, bring that data together, and then to, you know, automate some of the workflows they do most commonly. I often talk about meeting prep and meeting management, being able to bring some of that data together in a consistent standardized way without them having to go download reports, go find, you know, the latest PDFs, bring that all together automatically for them, so they’re ready to go.
Rachael Rowe: Yeah, absolutely. And data’s, sorry Kirsty, go ahead.
Kirsty Watson: just listening to Dean speak in there, it just really strikes me how similar I think some of the challenges that advisors are experiencing across not only in the US but the UK, despite the fact they’re operating in very different, you know, regulatory environments with different product sets, product structures, different demographics of clients.
Ultimately, the challenges that they’re facing are very similar in terms of that fragmentation, lack of integration, and this real drive for efficiency. So it just really stood out to me there as Dean was chatting through. So I just want to come in on that point.
Rachael Rowe: No, that’s excellent, thank you. And I think there is a strong resonance across the pond, as you’re both kind of alluding to. And I think also, and this is something that Gemma and I have discussed on previous podcasts, that data piece is almost the holy grail, being able to unlock the data behind those interactions.
as time moves forward. And, you know, we start to inevitably discuss AI, which I’m sure we’ll get to when we start to look around the corner in the future. But before we get there, Kirsty, I wanted to pose a question to you, because I think that what we’re seeing, particularly in the UK, is that many wealth managers are looking for a return of net inflows really as a priority for their businesses to support their growth agenda.
Does that resonate with Aberdeen? And if so, can you talk about how Aberdeen are looking to address that by improving service for all IFA clients?
Kirsty Watson: Yeah, absolutely. I think that that drive for growth, I would definitely agree, is consistent across our sector, across our market in the UK. I mean, it is very. Strong market. It’s a growing market. We expect the market size to potentially be somewhere in the region of two trillion pounds by 2030.
So, um, that’ll give you a sense of the growth trajectory that’s there. But I think we’re all organizations in the sector are trying to do, whether that’s, providers of platforms and services or advising businesses themselves when it comes to that growth and flow. There’s a realization that growth has got to be sustainable.
It’s got to be driven through doing things that work and deliver for clients and customers because Ultimately, in this market, you know, when you make a commitment to work with a platform or a technology provider or a service provider, that’s not a commitment that’s, that’s easily unwound or, or one that’s short term in nature.
So that is sustainable and sustainable. growth that’s very much client customer led, I think is really important. And that’s why there’s this huge focus on client [00:08:00] experience. That’s seen as the real differentiator for firms in our market and our sector, again, whether it’s the actual provider of the platform and the services, or within the advice business themselves.
And I think particularly within the advice businesses, because so much of their. Business comes from client referrals and client recommendations that experience and an experience that they feel proud to take out. It is one that’s really critical. So I think that’s why you’re seeing that, focus in that space in the UK certainly on that experience side.
Gemma Livermore: And Dean, what are your key priorities for your organization in enabling advisors?
Dean Heltemes: Yeah, Kirsty, just kind of maybe think of, I think something that’s really common is, that drive for growth is there. And of course, that’s pretty common across all industries. I think in the US, at least, and maybe it’s the same across the world. We’re also facing a shortage of advisors, right?
So it’s an aging population. Honestly, now, as people retire, we’re not filling those rings with a new younger generation of advisors. And so back to how [00:09:00] do I grow when I have less advisors to do that work. And so that’s again where technology has definitely come in to help out. So, I’m just curious, curious, are you seeing the same thing there.
Kirsty Watson: Absolutely. I mean, that’s one of the biggest challenges that some of our firms are reporting to us regularly in their capacity. Constraints that exist how that is creating challenges for them in terms of their ability to take on new clients and a lot of that capacity constraint comes from the theme that you referenced earlier, Dean, around that integration or rather lack of integration in the industry, whether that’s between, the platform or platforms that they use and the other financial technology tools that exist within their business or indeed through fragmentation and some of the key industry wide processes such as transfers.
For example, there’s a huge focus in the UK at the moment around the acceleration of transfers, whether that be transfers in or transfers out just to really. smooth the pathway of asset movement. But again, because of the fragmentation, the different providers [00:10:00] requirements, a lot of historic paper based processes, that is actually driving a lot of the capacity constraints that we’re seeing within our firms.
And I don’t know how it is in the US. I mean, we do have a lot of larger practices we deal with, but there’s also still quite a proliferation of smaller advisor businesses in the UK, very profitable, very successful businesses, but you know, not necessarily businesses of 20 and 30 people. There’s possibly, you know, five or 10 people working in the business.
So again, we just can’t afford that, inefficiency and lack of integration that you kind of reference.
Dean Heltemes: Yeah, a lot of similarities there and we actually have a lot of solo practices, you know, just one advisor with no support staff. And. It is the population i think we do really struggle to serve because they don’t have time to do anything and so you know trying to get them the latest and greatest the onboarding challenges difficult and so that’s definitely one of the things we’re looking to do is, how can we take these great solutions that we built enablement platforms.
and get the adoption we need, not from the largest advisors, because we’ve already have that, but from some of those smaller ones, because they’re the ones who probably could benefit from it the most, but that change management curve to adopt a new platform, a new technology, a new set of processes, it’s just difficult.
And so that is definitely one of the things we’re looking to do is say, how can we scale up and down from the smallest to the largest solutions that are helping out our advisor force.
Rachael Rowe: And I think that quite neatly segues us into the epicenter, because I think that that’s kind of the crux of where we are, isn’t it? The reframing of the capacity models and using technology in a way that enables that scalability, but also enhances the experience. With that, Kirsty, I just wanted to pick up a little bit, on the train of thought that, that you just had, as we were discussing the tremors, because obviously Aberdeen Advisor, services over 3, 000 advisor businesses, and as you’ve said, they vary quite considerably in size and complexity.
So what are some of the key challenges that your business faces in supporting so many and so varied IFAs?
Kirsty Watson: I think one of the, the key challenges, but I suppose also. opportunity for us is how we support those firms in the transition and in the change, because I think what we can’t underestimate is what may seem like a small change to us when we’re upgrading a part of the platform or introducing a new process can actually be quite fundamental for the advisor firm.
And it’s really, really critical that we walk in the shoes of the advisor business when we are thinking about not only the change that we’re introducing, but how we’re going to introduce it and what support we’re going to put in place to help our firms, our clients navigate that journey.
because some of our firms have been using our platforms and services in a particular way for pretty much since, um, the day we launched it, that’s certainly been, a lesson that we’ve, learned over the last sort of 12 to 18 months is that, as I say, even changes that may on the surface appear quite small, you can never underestimate the impact that has on your client, and you must always.
the preparation and the readiness for that. So that’s a key area of focus for us. I think the second key area for me is getting that balance right between people and technology. I think the real secret sauce comes when you blend those two together in the right way, because fundamentally, we cannot forget that we are a people driven business.
And whilst technology is there as an enabler and integration is there as an enabler. We are a business that’s built on people. It’s built on real customers with real money. It’s built on relationships. Um, it’s really critical that we don’t lose that human element. I’m always an advocate of the phrase, you know, just because you can automate doesn’t mean that you should.
Um, I think that we always have to get that balance right between when it is appropriate to have. That human touch, that personal perspective, versus when is it right to look at automation and tech, and that’s always a fine, balance that we’ve got
to walk.
Gemma Livermore: And that comes back to what Dean was saying, just there is, you know, what fits for one organization doesn’t necessarily fit for somebody who’s singular. So Dean, I’d love to come back to you at this point and just say, where are you looking at taking your technology and advisor experiences to make it get to the next level as we sit at this epicenter?
Where do you see that going forward?
Dean Heltemes: Yeah.
I think, scaling, something I mentioned before, you know, it’s one thing to be able to easily prepare for one meeting, get ready for whatever’s coming the next day, and have easy access to, you know, marketing collateral. That’s on brand, and it’s current, but it’s another to say, how, how do I scale that to, to a whole nother level?
So as many of our practices are growing and they’re trying to add more and more clients, now we’re looking for opportunities to do things at a much larger scale.
Gemma Livermore: Yeah.
Dean Heltemes: Can I prepare 50 meetings at a time? Why do I have to do those one at a time serially? and then on top of that, how can I personalize those?
to the different types of clients I’m meeting with. So it’s one thing to scale, but then it’s a second thing to be able to scale and personalize at that same time [00:15:00] so that every one of our conversations looks like it was catered directly to that client. You’re meeting with. So that’s kind of the, the, holy grail of what we’re trying to bring together is that personalized experience, but still be able to do that at a very large scale.
Gemma Livermore: Yeah.
Rachael Rowe: Absolutely. and I think Kirsty, you may have an interesting perspective on this as well, because I believe you rolled out Advisor OS to really help create capability to advise more clients, and enable business growth, which sounds fantastic. So perhaps for the benefit of the listeners, could you please elaborate a little bit on what Advisor OS is and explain how you’ve been utilizing technology?
To enhance the advisor experience.
Kirsty Watson: Yeah, absolutely. so the concept of, kind of business growth and creating efficiency for advisors, that’s actually not new for us. So that’s really been there at the core of. The introduction of platforms to the UK market, as I say, going back, gosh, up to kind of 20, 20 years now, so that hasn’t gone away.
I think that the key next phase of that for me is, this point on integration, and then as a result of the proliferation of different, not only different platforms, but different financial technology tools, services that have emerged over that last 20 year period. You know, you find most advisors now have up to roughly three platforms in their business they’re utilising, um, as well as a further between four and seven other technology solutions.
So again, it’s the swivel chair moments that the advisors now have to tackle between those different systems and tools that are actually now contributing to that efficiency challenge. So for me, really, that fundamental purpose is still there. And we’d actually, review in our branding of, advisor, the West concept at the moment.
So whether we. I still call it that which remains to be seen. But what’s at the heart of it is this concept of driving efficiency in the business, helping the advisor firm to grow. But the [00:17:00] next iteration of that is really about the integration and how you give them a more streamlined. integrated desktop with intuitive processes that really help them work smarter, work faster, um, spend more time with clients and customers.
That’s really what we’re trying to achieve. So for us, that’s at the core. Of the concept of what we see the next evolution of platforms as being
Gemma Livermore: I love that. And what were your biggest pain points that you had during that transformation?
Kirsty Watson: So we’re actually still in it just now, to be honest, we’re not finished. And I’m not sure we ever will be. I think that’s been the key to learning for me. You know, I think transformation, particularly in financial services, I think it’s just the way that we. need to do business now, because all, if you look at other industries, you look at the way the world’s moving, you even look at some of the things that we had to do as an industry in response to the COVID 19 pandemic, you know, that is just part of who we are now.
So, we’re still very much in that space. I think what next for us is, um, enhancing our product range. So we’re launching an on platform pension, later in 2025. We’re also looking to bring together our two platforms. So we currently run two advisor platforms in the UK. We’re bringing them together onto one technology stack.
likely the end of this year. Again, it’s all about that pursuit of how we help advisors grow, how do we create more efficiency in their business so they can look after more clients, and how do we drive that integration agenda for them. So that’s really the priorities that we’ve got.
And we’ve had to think a lot about our operating model and in our pursuit of that goal understand that actually what got us here as a business isn’t necessarily what’s going to get us there. So you’re having to think about new capabilities, new skill sets now around things like data, cyber, delivery models.
again, to keep up with that rapid pace of change and that level of transformation that as I said, I firmly believe is just, you know, how we need to do business now. It’s not a project or a program anymore. That’s just life.
so we’re having to think about the setup of how we run the business so that we’re designed to support clients and customers and set up for success to do that.
Gemma Livermore: Yeah, and seeing it as a journey rather than as a destination, which is how we’ve seen things in the past.
Kirsty Watson: Yeah.
absolutely.
Gemma Livermore: So Dean, coming to you, since implementing Seismic, what improvements have you seen in terms of advisor productivity, client engagement, and so forth?
Dean Heltemes: I think our number one thing we like to tell it is just the growth right so as i mentioned earlier growth is certainly one of our top goals and what we’ve definitely seen is. Our advisors that are using our platform on a regular basis, the way we designed it, are growing at a much more rapid pace than those that aren’t.
We’ve been able to track that, you know, from a data science perspective over a number of years, and so it’s not even in question anymore. So we’ve definitely been able to demonstrate, you know, the growth that the platform can enable. I think on top of that, though, I always like to look at things from multiple angles.
So that’s definitely one of the targets. But another one is efficiency gains, right? So you can’t grow if you aren’t getting more efficient as well. And, you know, depending on where they started, we’ve seen practices. talk about as much as a 70 percent gain in efficiencies in terms of meeting preparation as one example.
So that’s definitely a big benefit from the advisor’s perspective.
Rachael Rowe: And given that, Dean, and also, I guess, in the context of trying to drive change within an organization, how has this success, these gains that you’ve been able to demonstrate, impacted advisor satisfaction and I guess overall business outcomes?
Dean Heltemes: Yeah, we do survey our field members on a regular basis. And we are at, I think, an all time high for our firm in terms of satisfaction with their platform. So, it’s definitely been a big aid in that. I think the other thing though is that I guess you know no conversation about financial services complete without talking about the regulatory environment and I think advisors are increasingly understanding the value that companies like ours provide because.
It’s nearly impossible for a solo or a small practice to keep with the pace of change. I mean, multiple times a year, we are having to react, adjust, update, roll out. And so, having platforms like this that can, you know, be centrally managed, pushed out easily adapted and adopted by the field has just allowed us to make some of those changes in a way that we just couldn’t do in the past.
so I do think the recognition of that, is certainly becoming more and more known to the field. And that’s something that’s definitely part of our value proposition.
Kirsty Watson: I would definitely agree with that, dealings. I think what we’ve certainly seen over the past few years is that the regulatory expectation is increasing all the time. And that’s very much for the right reasons to protect the interests of customers and clients. And within the UK space, we’ve got that huge focus now on consumers.
duty, [00:22:00] but the onus is much more on business owners and principles to have that kind of don’t tell me, show me type of mindset when it, when it comes to regulation and being able to really evidence that they have the processes, the systems, the management information and reporting in place that enables them to satisfy their obligations as senior managers.
And that’s something. Technology and platform technology in particular is very strong in. Again, that is something that I think is critical now for people, especially business owners, certainly in the UK market.
Dean Heltemes: Adding on to that I think the expectations are changing right as advisors are becoming younger right as we’re bringing on a new workforce. As our clients are becoming younger their expectations are different. I do not expect to have to learn a fifty step process and you sign a piece of paper and send it in.
Those are things that now are table stakes to them. And so, you know, bringing a digital platform that’s as automated as possible, simple to use and provides an excellent client experience is now a requirement from both the advisor and from the client side. And so that’s definitely been one of the strategic opportunities we’re going after.
Rachael Rowe: Yeah,
it certainly supports the war for talent as much as the war, with regard to client experience as well, I guess.
Gemma Livermore: And that brings us nicely into our Aftershock side of the podcast. So we’ve discussed the problems that existed so far. Then we’ve gone to the epicenter of how we’ve used technology to improve some of those issues. And at this stage, it’s really blue sky thinking of what’s next. What do you imagine for the future of this industry and what could that look like?
So, Rachael, over to you.
Rachael Rowe: Thanks Gemma. So, Kirsty, if I come to you first, what’s next for Aberdeen in continuing to innovate for advisors to help achieve this market leading position?
Kirsty Watson: So, I think the key thing for us. First of all, is this focus on experience that I touched on? And as I say, I don’t ever think there’s an end to that. I think that’s just [00:24:00] something we have to continually get better and better and better in order to retain that as a differentiator versus our peers and competitors in the market.
And where I’d say we are today, it’s been very much about stabilizing the experience, improving our service. We’ve started to redesign our client journeys and our service model, um, we’re already seeing some great benefits and client feedback coming through on the back of that. Going forward, it’s about that mentality of that straight through process and a standard, you know, having a platform that’s effectively paperless, secure information exchange, digitized journeys that really role models that quickest and accelerated movement of assets both on and off.
platform. Now, that’s not all solely within our gift and control, but I think given our position in industry, we’ve got a responsibility to really lead the way in that space. So I think that’s key for us to integrate. We’ve touched on how we expand and evolve there. But think for me that the real sort of blue sky pieces is how the [00:25:00] Savings and investment landscape, and I can really only speak for the UK market, and it would be good to get Dean’s view, but that, that landscape, I think, is going to change dramatically over the next 10 years in terms of the types of products and solutions that Clients and customers are seeking, you know, we’re already seeing, um, trend with younger people sort of opting out of pension type vehicles and looking to save money and, more flexible sort of products.
So I think there’s something there around how that landscape is going to change as that wealth transfer happens between the sort of baby boomer generation. Down to the kids and grandkids and how they want to save and manage their money going forward. And I think that’s going to be very, very different to how. Money is saved and managed at the moment, and that will be the challenge, not just for advisor firms, but for us as a provider of platforms and services. How do we remain relevant and innovative for that next? generation of investors. So I’m really excited about that. I don’t have all the answers, but I think that, that for me is where the blue sky piece lies.
Rachael Rowe: Thanks, Kirsty. That’s really interesting. Dean, did you want to come back on that?
Dean Heltemes: Yeah a lot of similarities and i think i’ll summarize it as what is the future of the advisor to client experience we built a lot of things over the last many years. Things are going well but let’s fast forward five years ten years twenty years it’s gonna be different. And you know we get some examples with the younger generation coming along but.
And we’re really trying to poke at the edges of what is possible and think about what that experience might look like and so part of the value proposition at Ameriprise is this trusted personal relationship right we still emphasize face to face. But we also are balancing that with new digital capabilities.
So again, as we look to the future, we have to kind of rebalance that and look at and understand, you know, what do our clients want? What do our advisors want? One of the big ones for us is what does the meeting of the future even look like? You know, a lot of our success in the last few years, you know, leveraging the seismic platform has been around the advisor to client meetings, but we know the meeting of the future is going to look a lot different.
And so we’re starting to kind of prototype out, what are some different things we could bring to the table that are, interesting and, emerging tech kind of breakthroughs, you know, looking at things like gen a and other capabilities to understand where might we be able to bring this.
To enhance that experience, at the same time, we also know we need to continue to maintain the high level of service and experience we have, but we’re really trying to segment our audience, understand those different target groups and really start to customize and personalize those different experiences we can offer.
so that we’re ready for whatever might come
Kirsty Watson: think that readiness point is like so, so important because in many ways, and I’m sure you’ll be the same Dean, like I wish I had a crystal ball to see what, the world will look like in 30 years and I don’t have one of those, but what I do have through the business and the teams is the ability to set the organization Up for success and its ability to pivot and its ability to adapt. And I think that’s why the point of making operating models they’re having the right, you know, the right capabilities in your business, the right talent in your business is so important because that piece of change is only going to increase.
And whilst we don’t know what’s coming, we know that we’re going to have to adapt. I think it’s almost approaching it with that mindset and putting in the foundations that you’re able to do that. at peace and in a way that supports clients and customers, whatever that change might look like is really, really critical.
Dean Heltemes: like that because there, may not be a crystal ball, but the key thing that we need to do in roles like we have is understand the business and myself and my team, you know, we spend a lot of time working with advisors, talking to advisors, going out in the field, understanding, you know, what, actually challenging them day to day.
And so from that, you know, we got to make sure we’re not building solutions in an ivory tower that nobody actually wants to use. staying ultra connected to what’s happening on the ground. Is as critical in this industry as any
Rachael Rowe: And you bring up an interesting point there, Dean, because I think underpinning this is having that data, having those insights of what is actually happening on the ground, that then you’re in a position to be able to develop a data driven strategy in terms of how you move forward, and to Kirsty’s point, how you remain flexible and agile.
And one thing we haven’t touched very much on is AI’s role within all of this. So, I guess, Gemma, we’re moving towards closing remarks, so I will leave that thought hanging because I guess that will come up in these closing comments.
Gemma Livermore: Exactly, so any final thoughts from either of you on the future of Advisor Enablement? Kirsty, if we can come to you first?
Kirsty Watson: Yeah. I think for me, it’s that last point around adaptability and as Dean said, remain unconnected to the client and the customer. I think it’s very easy in our industry to get bogged down in the jargon, the regulation, the governance that exists around financial services, which as I said earlier, exists for good reason.
However, ultimately it’s about. understanding what your clients and customers want and need and helping prepare them for the future. So, I think as long as you don’t lose sight of that, I don’t think there’s much that we won’t be able to tackle and face as an industry.
Gemma Livermore: And Dean?
Dean Heltemes: yeah i i often say my job is to help advisors do what they’re good at talking with clients working with clients they should have to be good at using the technology about learning the regulations and these long tedious processes. So the more that we can take off their workloads, the more time they can spend actually meeting with clients, advising clients, and helping them plan for their futures.
And so no matter what technology comes along, that’s what it’s all about. And so sometimes we have to remind ourselves that that’s what we need to be focused on, helping the advisor and the clients. Work together to achieve the, you know, the dreams and goals that they have and we’ll take the rest of their plates and help them make that as turnkey as possible.
Gemma Livermore: Love that. It’s very clear to see that both Aberdeen and Ameriprise are committed to shaping the future of Advisor Enablement, so I look forward to seeing where these journeys go. Thank you both for sharing your insights today. It’s been a really good discussion
